help please - high school science

I purchased PH phys sci for 8th grade, planing on making it a 2 year program.
Well we are going slow thru alg 1 and probably will not have completed it by 9th grade, most likely not until about half way thru 9th.
Learning the math concepts at the same time as the science is just too much for him. He had such a hard time with it, that we set aside the science.

I had thought we'd just do biology, thinking there'd be little math in cutting up critters and learning body systems and such.
But then I see that no, even basic biology is heavy in math.

Is there a science option that is still college prep, but not math heavy for a 9th grader?

I tried going to the science section of the highschool board, but it wouldn't let me over there for some reason.

What I'd like to do is just skip phy sci and go to biology. Is that not possible to do successfully?

My son used to really like science, but now he feel sas though he is so behind in math that he might as well not even bother with science. Neither of us are happy about this. Crying or Very sad

Dear Martha,

Biology these days is not math heavy per se, but it is chemistry heavy, hence the pre-requisite we suggest for a strong Physical Science course prior to bio. Please don't think you are behind because you have have not finished Algebra I yet! I was in Alg I and Phys Sci as a freshman in high school as well and was able to still major in physics in college and graduate in 4 years Smile

. Once your son has gotten through equations using two variabls (x, y), solving simultaneous equations, and exponents in Algebra I, he should have had all the math he needs to do Physical Science. Those concepts are usually presented by the time you get halfway through most Algebra I programs (not sure what you are using). And really, the chemistry chapters in the Phys Sci course are the most important for preparing for Biology and Chem, so you could concentrate on doing those (which take less Algebra I skills) first.

Even the Conceptual Physics courses out there still require a good bit of Algebra I knowledge. There just isn't a way around it. Definitely let your son concentrate on honing his Algebra skills first and foremost and start the Chemistry chapters of the Phys Sci course (which should be just pre-Alg skills) and he will be on his way.

Side note that the course help boards are for registered families. If you are registered you need to PM kolbeadmin to get added.

God bless,
Megan

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Megan Lengyel
Kolbe Academy Home School
Academic Advisor Department
Math and Science Advisor

You're definatly not the only one that is taking two years for Algebra 1. I have two other friends that have also done that.
With all of my other school work, I couldn't ever fit an entire lesson of math in one day. I'm not sure if you're doing Saxon, but that's what I've been doing, and boy is it a pain!! Confused

But I'll be happy when it's over...
I'm doing PS Physical Science at the same time, and the math part wasn't the part that threw me off, it was just the concepts that didn't register. Rolling Eyes

One of my mom's friends tutored me, and I passed! (The chemistry was the worst)

Claire

I did algebra I over two years (8th and 9th grades), and I'm glad I did - it took me that long to understand all the concepts. I was able to do honors biology concurrently, and without physical science. I think biology would have been easier with phys sci, but it's doable without it. However, I do not recommend skipping phys sci totally!!!!!! I tried to do chemistry without phys sci, and failed miserably. I ended up doing phys sci in 10th grade and am currently doing chemistry in 11th grade.

Hope

We tried the Prentice Hall physical science this year as a sophomore and we still only got through one quarter. I therefore, have switched to Apologia Physical science in the past week. My daughter says she is so happy. She understands it (FINALLY). The other course was just too difficult for her non-scientific mind. Now we are going to do Physical Science over the summer so that she can enter biology in her junior year.

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Jenny
Changing our world one diaper at a time!

I am new at this forum so please be forgiving of any mistakes I make. I am currently a 10th grade homeschooler who is in Chemistry. I can not emphasize enough on how helpful the Chemistry section of the PH sci book was in preparing me for this Chemistry course. Very Happy

My mom and I had to struggle through the Ph sci book just like you are now but it was all worth it because I now see how beneficial it was in preparing me for Chemistry.

Andrew

Thank you Andrew! I really appreciate your feedback... I designed the Physical Science course with that specific purpose in mind and I am glad to see it is working!

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Megan Lengyel
Kolbe Academy Home School
Academic Advisor Department
Math and Science Advisor

It is important to realize that you don't have to completely understand all of the chemistry that is present in the Physical Science course. As Megan mentioned, the goal of that section is to prepare you both for biology which has some biochemistry in it, and more importantly so you don't go into Chemistry without having a base to work from.

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Everett Buyarski
Academic Advisor Manager
Kolbe Academy Home School

A word of encouragement: We did Biology first and then Physical science. I'm sure we missed some ideas in the Bio - but it was sufficient for our child. We were just plain sick of physical science having attempted it in 8th grade with an easier text. We thought the PH text with more detail would help after we had a breather. The bottom line was that both texts assume a lot of background knowledge, they both jump around a bit, and the more detail given, the wordier they are in giving it. These things make science texts hard to get through in our house. We have utiilized hands on homescience kits to illustrate concepts, husband who has an EE degree (not much help in chemistry, though), and really well done living science books for younger children to provide some of the overview, background. We also called Kolbe frequently - but this just isn't the most efficient means of getting something. We do the best we can.

We just couldn't face physical science again right away after the 8th grade frustration. We found that having someone give a good overview - children's books on the subject (not texts), homescience tools kits, and/or a general presentation from dad or a tutor went a long way. Also get a list of significant figure rules from Megan - and we also had to hash over the physical science chemistry stuff with someone quite a bit. We had to have the whole picture in a way before we could grapple with the parts. Unfortunately, science texts are not written for visual, big picture learners who need hands on. We have to find a non textbook way to present the information initially - at least in overview. We took forever to get through the first part of PH physical science (it does make chemistry easier) and raced through the rest of the book (that seemed so much easier to our children - perhaps because that is dad's field and he could explain things easily to them).

As far as getting through the course - we did not rush. We had the children do all the problems, I graded them in as timely a manner as possible. Often when I graded, I had to put ? by things because I really had no idea if my children had it correct and just worded in their own way or whether they missed it. That is where we pulled dad in. They went over with dad whatever they got wrong or was a ?. Then we figured out where to go from there. For the chemistry, we simply came to the realization that we needed outside support if we wanted to get done before our child's senior year. Once we got through the chemistry portion of the text, we were surprised at how quickly the rest of the text went. (Also we never assigned the honors stuff and I count some of that as bonus if they answer those portions correctly on the tests).

We have since spoken to Megan about ways to rearrange the Bio text to emphasize what we want to emphasize for our other children, depending on their likely interests. Ours are mostly big picture learners and the wordiness of science texts often throws them at first, especially our daughter who just gets confused by wordiness (and poor thing is stuck with wordy me as her teacher). It is better for us to cover less, but cover it well and thoroughly. We did get help for physical science as the chemistry portion just was not something we could not efficiently introduce. It took us a long, long time to do physical science - and it was not the math, but the chemistry. It took us 3 times as long to get through the chemistry portion of the physical science book as the whole rest of the book. It has made chemistry much easier.

Also, it doesn't hurt to be finishing up physical science and moving on to chemistry. Once you are through the chemistry part of the physical science text, you can just start right into chemistry if you need to, while finishing up the physics stuff at the end of the physical science text. Of course, it is best if they finish one science at a time - but you don't have to panic if you just have to take longer to get through the first intro course.

The other thing to keep in mind is that these texts do not give all the info the child needs in the text itself. I got a handout from Megan on significant figures - I remembered there were some set rules, just couldn't remember them all and the PH text does a very poor job with this. The text is written assuming you have already been introduced to a lot. If you have not, then you have to fill in the gaps.

You can make all kinds of things work. Don't expect the 2nd half of physical science to take nearly as long as the chemistry portion - and if you can get help with the chemistry, it helps. We had a tutor who did everything hands on with ours first, gave her the big picture and it just finally clicked. Megan is a great resource in terms of how to taylor things to your own circumstances without losing essential background.

It takes so long to bog through the chemistry concepts, that I don't think the Algebra at that point would help all that much.
There really are not good science materials out there, honestly. At one point, we gave our daughter a choice of going to the Apologia for chemistry (we could not take the agenda in the Physical science and biology texts but chemistry is pretty straight forward) thinking the more conversational writing style would help, but it confused her more because he repeats the same thing over and over with a different set of words. A lot depends on your own child's best mode of learning. Our daughter chose the Kolbe chemistry. She is doing Anatomy with a co-op that uses Apologia, and the text really is not ideal for her - but we have a real teacher so that sort of makes up for the text.

If you could figure out what is really causing the slowdown, you probably get a better idea how to help. If it is the math itself, then you take one strategy. If it isn't the math, but a mismatch between text and child's learning style, you take another. If it is missing background information, then you have to find a way to give them the background they need. I got a lot of help figuring out exactly what was wrong by sitting down and talking - all of us, my husband, myself and our daughter. I just do not have the science background to give what she needs in a timely manner and the reality is that my husband can help with problems here and there but we would derail when she had problems and that coincided with extended business trips or overtime or .... We have had to patch together something that works given our circumstances. It can be done, though it takes some creativity.

Janet

I too was very unhappy with PH Phys Science for my 9th grader. We had just started homeschooling and my husband and I were not happy with the way the material was presented. Not enough detail on any one subject and not enough problems to solve to develop proficiency. This year our daughter has moved on to Biology. After talking to another Kolbe mom, she advised us to purchase the Reading and Study Workbook that goes along with Biology. I do not grade any of the work my daughter does in this book, but I think it reinforces the concepts for her. She is getting A's in Honors Biology and absolutely loves science so much more than last year. It is a lot more work to do, but she has realized the benefit of it. I wish I had the conversation with the Kolbe mom last year and we could have purchased a similar workbook for Phy Sci - that might have helped. Hopefully this tip will help someone else!

I also think the Physical Science is lacking in enough problems to allow the student to practice so they can get proficiency for the exam which requires they know how to apply the math they had very little practice using. I had a friend whose older child is in Chemistry email me extra practice problems for some of the chemistry problems that required math so we had practice sets to prepare for the exams. This made all the difference. It would be useful if Kolbe provided extra practice problems with keys for exam prep. Barbara

my 8th grader also struggled with physical science, although with a lot of help from her science loving mom, she was able to pull an A. I found the book to present a lot of info, but not indepth enough to really understand it. If my dd cannot fully understand why something is, she has a hard time remembering it. She especially struggled with the chem part. The physics she could understand better because she could picture what they were describing. The tests were very hard, especially compared to the test my current 8th grader is getting at the public school.

It was helpful to me to remember that this is just an intro to physical science and they will get all the details in chem and physics in high school. This is meant to introduce the concepts, not necessarily solidify them. Kind of like pre-algebra. They are introduced to the basics so that when the get the full course, they have seen it before and will be able to go much deeper with their understanding. Even knowing that, it was hard for my dd to not try to fully understand chemistry. I had to keep reminding her that she would get it a lot better in 10th grade.

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Volunteer Kolbe Parent

Where did you purchase the reading and study workbook for biology?

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Louise Deal

You can purchase them at www.phschool.com. Browse for science curriculum and then find the miller/levine biology book. All materials are under there. If you do a search on this forum, i believe the isbns are listed somewhere in the science forum.

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Megan Lengyel
Kolbe Academy Home School
Academic Advisor Department
Math and Science Advisor