Feedback on Catholic Colleges in the Newman Guide?

As a parent of a current Kolbe high school junior, I would love to have some personal feedback from other Kolbe families regarding any of the Catholic colleges listed in the recently published Newman Guide to Choosing a Catholic College.

The colleges featured are :

Christendom College
Front Royal, Virginia

The College of Saint Thomas More
Fort Worth, Texas

Franciscan University of Steubenville
Steubenville, Ohio

Magdalen College
Warner, New Hampshire

Thomas Aquinas College
Santa Paula, California

The Thomas More College of Liberal Arts
Merrimack, New Hampshire

University of Dallas
Irving, Texas

University of St. Thomas
Houston, Texas

Ave Maria University
Ave Maria, Florida

Holy Apostles College & Seminary
Cromwell, Connecticut

John Paul the Great Catholic University
San Diego, California

Our Lady Seat of Wisdom Academy
Barry's Bay, Ontario, Canada

Southern Catholic College
Dawsonville, Georgia

Wyoming Catholic College
Lander, Wyoming

Aquinas College
Nashville, Tennessee

Belmont Abbey College
Belmont, North Carolina

Benedictine CollegeAtchison, Kansas

The Catholic University of America
Washington, D.C.

DeSales University
Center Valley, Pennsylvania

Mount St. Mary's University
Emmitsburg, Maryland

St. Gregory's University
Shawnee, Oklahoma

We are not very interested in the colleges which follow a “Great Books” program as their exclusive course offering.

The areas in which we are specifically looking for feedback are:

1) Catholic Identity

--How Catholic is the college? Are the orthodox teachings of the Catholic faith present in the course offerings, both at the core curriculum level and in upper level courses? What about in the areas (other than Theology) in which universities are often known to have conflicts with the Church, such as in some areas of science, history, and social science?

--Does the college primarily see itself as a Catholic college, or just as a good private college which happens to be Catholic?

--What percentage of the faculty is Catholic, and do they follow the Church’s teachings?

--What is the environment like on campus, as far as Catholic teaching is concerned? What are the college’s policies regarding chastity, modesty, and types of social activities? Are these policies enforced?

2) Spiritual Life

--What are the liturgies like? Feedback on Masses offered (i.e. Traditional Latin Mass, Novus Ordo) and overall atmosphere and music (charismatic, more traditional Novus Ordo, etc.)

--What is the university chapel like? Is it modern, traditional, etc?

--Is frequent confession offered and do students take advantage of it?

--What other types of spiritual opportunities are available?

3) Student Body

--What percentage of the student body is Catholic?

--What makes them models of Catholic behavior (overall friendliness and helpfulness, stewardship, everyday evangelization)

4) Cost

---What types of academic merit-based scholarships are available? What percentage of tuition is available in the form of scholarship, i.e. full tuition, half-tuition, etc.? What is a typical amount of merit-based scholarship for a Kolbe grad?

5) College Leadership/Administration

--In what ways does the college truly fulfill its role as an alma mater, nurturing mother? Does the university have programs in place to support its students and watch out for them while they are living away from home?

6) Academics

--What was the transition to college-level work like after completing Kolbe’s curriculum? Difficult, easy, or somewhere in between? Specifics would be helpful.

My son and husband have visited a few of these colleges, but it would be so helpful if other Kolbe families could chime in and give us their impressions. Feedback would be helpful from both the parent’s and the student’s perspective. I would love to hear from families who have students currently attending any of these universities. Why did they choose the college they did? Why did they not choose others? Feedback from other high schoolers who are also visiting these colleges would be great so we can get other people’s impressions.

I would also like to say that I realize that choosing a college can be a very personal decision. What might be a perfect fit for one student might not be what another is looking for. That is why I spelled out above what we are looking for. So I know that everyone will be judicious and fair in their comments, and I'm sure that no one will take it personally if one person makes a comment about a college that someone else might not agree with. I do think that sharing personal experiences/impressions about these colleges can help students make more informed decisions, though.

Thanks.

Anne

I looked into Holy Apostles in Cromwell, as we live in CT...we decided it wasn't for us, mainly because at the time my graduating senior did not drive and since it is a commuting college, it would've been a pain driving her there and back. However, I did come to the conclusion that the education there would be fairly comparable, Catholic-wise, as that from Christendom or TAC. It was not a great books curriculum. And the tuition was quite reasonable - somewhere around $7500, two years ago. But they don't have dorms there....

There is a weekly traditional Mass on the campus.

They were very open to homeschoolers.
Christina

We visited the thomas More campus about 2 or 3 years ago. The campus is tiny - very few buildings. The chapel was in a barn as I recall, but they spoke of plans for a new church. At that time there was no resident priest. Their president just resigned rather suddenly within the last few days. Their library was substandard as far as I was concerned. As to academics, there were only a few "majors."

We also visited Magdalen and one of my children went to a visitor weekend there. There are no majors (or weren't a year or so ago). They are a Great Books school. Things were very regimented with assigned seating at meals so that cliques wouldn't develop. No phones in the dorm rooms. Girls were in quads and boys rooms were for 8. Every semester, room assignments are changed. Dress code - they stress modesty (girls have to wear camisoles under shirts/dresses) - but the rules don't seem to be enforced evenly. Some girls wore alot of makeup and had shorter than average skirts and that seemed to be OK.

My biggest complaint about Magdalen is that, at the time, they employed too many new grads in positions that really needed "adults." The lack of electives was a negative for us as well. Their Masses are traditional. The tuition was not very high but there were no merit scholarships - no matter how good the SATs or grades. And even though they told us that they were changing their policy to accept federal money, that didn't happen when we were considering Magdalen.

I recently visited Magdalen for their two week summer youth program and met with one of the founders two weeks ago. They like many of the colleges listed below offer a Bachelor and Associates Degree in Liberal Arts as well as an Apostolic Catechetical Diploma (if you complete all catechetical tutorials with a C or better). They have two main focuses that I believe serve to distinguish them from other good Catholic liberal arts colleges: community and music. Community is stressed there by people not gossiping, everyone attending Mass, meals and class at the same time, socializing (as tvs, mp3 players, cd players, and radios arent allowed), wholesome activities/clubs, and student body size always being kept under 100. I believe it is best explained on their website http://magdalen.edu/ There are 3-4 girls in a dorm room, and the room is made so that it's not impossible to share the space. (Each person has dresser and wardrobe and must keep clothes and shoes in them, the bathroom really consists of a doorway attached to the room in which is a wall to wall counter with two sinks, drawers, cabinets, and a large mirror. On either side of this space are two doors, one leading to a bathroom with a toilet, another sink and mirror, and the other door opening to a room with a bath/shower. (Although I wasn't ever in the men's dormitory (no intervisitation allowed) I heard they only have a shower basin...don't know how much that matters to them though : ) It was designed so that all four girls could be 'using the bathroom' all at once, without having to worry about running to someone else's room, or having to wait. Each student also has a study space in the dorm with desk, shelving space, and chair. I thought they did a good job building it. My best friend recently visited Belmont Abbey College, and she could only find one problem with it (8 girls to one bathroom). Granted, the spirituality and academic rigor are the most important facets I look for in a school, but I find the bathroom issue is just as important as how the tasty the food is, at least to me (and usually is not found on any college's website). Btw, I had no problem with Magdalen's 'cuisine'.
Everyone has daily chores, is assigned kitchen duty, a weekly chore as well, and is in choir. I have heard of them jokingly referred to as a 'bootcamp', but when I visited I found all their rules made sense and contributed to everyone getting along, maintaining peace and order. I know some people think they're a bit strict with their rules and such, but I really like that. I've seen what happens when people don't have any structure, and aren't made to follow the rules, and it makes me feel insecure. For instance, no gossiping, you can date but you have to have good grades and run it by the dean for the privilege, no slacks or sleeveless in Church (guys must wear dress well too), for recreation the girls' employ the fingertip rule for shorts (shorter than the edge of your fingertips is too short), during the meals at each table there's only one converation at a time (that way everyone's included and you can have a fun discussion), people do not go for seconds or finish until everything is eaten on their plate (that way no one wastes and when you get your food you can always say can I not have that, or ask for a little bit less of something...obviously if you're sick you're exempt), and other such things. They also enforced each and every one of those rules when I was there, and were right to do so; everyone had a better time as a result. (In fact, one participant in the summer program that I attended disliked the school and it's rules and decided to break them, and they didn't put up with that, she was punished (she missed an outing), yet in one week she totally transformed from being the odd fish to loving the school, and everyone loved her. In fact, she was the one crying hardest at leaving. I believe it was because her home life was so very undisciplined that here she felt at peace.) Another thing I especially liked about Magdalen was that they offered confession every morning before Mass and that they had adoration chapels in each residence hall, so that if I can't sleep at night I can go make a visit! I just really love the school! The campus is lovely, and they also offer a month long Norcia Italy program at the end of Sophomore year. They do use the socratic method in teaching but they are nota great books school, as it says on their website. I know alumni from over six families, all who I've seen become good model Catholic men and women, steadfast in their faith, and not having any problems (that I see) fulfilling their vocations (religious, married and single). I hope this information has been helpful, and I would definitely recommend checking out their website.

Please forgive me, I just realized I didn't answer some of the questions asked. On the website it says that more than half of their student body has been homeschooled (which I totally believe, they were so welcoming and understanding (meaning they didn't ask me "So does your mom teach you?"), I can't seem to find this information on their website but I know I've heard somewher that over two thirds of their faculty must be practicing Catholics, on their website it does say that the Catholic faculty, staff, and trustees annually take an oath of fidelity to the Magisterium of the Church. The college sees itself as a Catholic College, it truly was deserving of the Newman Guide's "Joyfully Catholic" designation. As for their liturgies, they offer one daily Mass every morning in the Novus Ordo form, they have several choirs (two of which are chant scholas, and one being polyphony), and only men serve at the altar. I also thought that the priests were very holy men of God. I found the to be lovely in that it looked like a church (Christ is actually on the altar, there's an altar rail which everyone uses, stain glass window, choir loft, and two little side altars. It wasn't grand or ornate, but I thought had a very simple beauty, helping to elevate our thoughts our thoughts, and not looking like a gym, barn, or pizza hut church, but truly God's house. DR, is right in that they don't offer 'scholarships. Their financial aid is need based. In other words, you tell them how much you can afford, and what the deficit is they'll try to cover. A girl I know who goes to school there was able to have them pay for most of her tuition as she scored an almost perfect on the english section of the ACT or SAT (I don't remember which). All students live on campus and their are many activities in place that help nurture the mind and promote Catholic friendships. Once again, I hope that's of some help, and think that you'll find everything best explained on their website.

Dear Anne,
I just wanted to give you a few thoughts on The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC. My son is a sophomore there, studying Greek and Latin. He loves it. The Classics Department is very well respected with a challenging course of study with very on target professors (faith-wise and academically). He was awarded a merit-scholarship of 13,000 per year for four years. My understanding was that GPA and SAT scores were the criteria. There is a bishop's scholarship that is full tuition.

The campus ministry is run by the Franciscans. The Masses tend to be more of your typical youth masses. The preaching is very on target though, no wishey-washey stuff. However, the National Basilica is adjacent to the campus as are many religious houses of study. Daily mass at the Basilica has many students and people from DC. There are several hours of confession every day and the spiritual guidance is excellent. There is a traditional Tridentiene Mass a few metro stops down. This past Easter my son stayed on campus and enjoyed the liturgy of the Passion at the Basilica and the Dominican House of Studies.

The students are a mixed bag. My son has managed to find many kindred souls. I think that he would probably say that many of the students are misdirected and poorly formed, but good-hearted. His first semester he had me send the Fr. Laux books he used in high school for reference purposes.

The president of the college is very Catholic and has emphasized the Catholic identity of the campus. There is strict enforcement of speakers and clubs at the school.

There are definitely a drinking contingent at the school, but it is not overwhelming by any means.
Intervisitation rules are by and large enforced.

I am sure there are professors to be avoided. The Philosophy department is very solid, more so than the theology department. The music school is excellent.

Since there is a very strong graduate program (it started as a graduate school) there is plenty of opportunity to meet older more serious students and benefit from the resources available for those students even as an undergrad. This is a big difference from a place like Christendom (which my son visited for a weekend). If you want to push yourself and reach farther, the professors and the resources and other students are there for you to click with.

My son did not find Christendom academically challenging enough, nor the students terribly serious about learning. He got the impression it was an extension of high school for most. My daughter had the same impression. She complained that everyone smoked like chimmneys.

I hope this is useful to you. If your son wants to speak to my son some time, feel free to contact me.

regards, Meg Marlett

I can speak as a parent of 3 graduates and 1 current student at Franciscan University.

My oldest daughter graduated in 2003 with a degree in Humanities and Catholic Culture. While at FUS she was the coordinator of a female household on campus. The household structure is one of the strongest drawing point to FUS. Households are organized along different charisms (and are gender specific). Seniors/juniors mentor the younger students academically, socially, and most importantly spiritually. The dorms are also organized along household lines - they try to place the kids in the wing in which their households are concentrated. Dorm life is so different when there are senior and juniors moderating the behavior of younger students. After graduation, she taught in Catholic schools until the birth of her twins. In addition, she met her husband (who was also part of a household) at FUS.

My oldest son graduated in 2006 with a biology degree. He was awarded a full fellowship at the University of Kentucky Medical School and in 2008 received his Masters in Medical Science degree. He has a position with a firm in MD doing medical research. He was also part of a household during his years at FUS. He met his wife (who was part of his older sister's household) at FUS.

My middle son is due to graduate next week. He majored in History and Philosophy. He was awarded a scholarship from the University of Kentucky Law School and will begin this Fall. This son was also part of the same household as his older brother and his brother-in-law. Can't say enough good things about the household system at FUS! This son was a National Merit Scholar as a senior in high school and was DEFINITELY not going to FUS when he started looking at colleges. He visited several of the colleges on your list of schools and several secular colleges ( 8 schools all together). He took us all over the country looking at schools! While he found several of the other schools academically interesting; he thought they all came up short on the campus life issue. I remember picking him up at one school after his "night in the dorm" and his comment was "Whose idea was it to let 150 freshmen boys live in a dorm by themselves!" This was at one of the Catholic colleges on your list. He was so used to visiting his older brother and witnessing the interaction of seniors rooming right next door to incoming freshman. That visit ended our search for a college. This son is in a household (the same one as his older brother!) and has been involved in Chapel ministries.

My youngest is finishing up his sophomore year as an accounting major. He also visited a number of colleges in his search. He was so turned off by the business professors that he talked to elsewhere who were so interested in fashioning his career - in assuring him that he would be at the top of his field and would "be giving the orders" to everyone else. When this son got to FUS for his interview, it was such a different philosophy. The dean of the business school told my son that he could go anywhere and study accounting and become a CPA; however, at FUS, they would do that AND form him in such a way that he would be a businessman who "would take his faith to the office with him every morning." That sold my son. While he hasn't graduated yet, he landed a summer internship with an accounting firm. This son is also in a household (the same one as his older brothers!) and is very involved in Chapel ministries.

There are 3 daily masses on campus(about 85% of the kids on campus go to daily mass) and 4 every Sunday (one of which is a Traditional Latin Mass). There are no scheduled Saturday evening masses on campus unless there is a larges gathering of parents. However, there are several Catholic parishes within a couple minutes drive from campus if the students really need to go to Saturday evening mass. Most go on campus to one of the Sunday masses. Confessions are scheduled once a week and my kids are always complaining about having to stand in line so I assume there are bunches of kids going. I'd say from my experience the campus is no more charismatic than it is traditional. I have simply found it to be unabashedly Catholic. There are over 70 households on campus so I think any student would be able to find a spiritual home in one of them.

Scholarship money at FUS is not as abundant as elsewhere; all my kids received academic scholarships. All my kids turned down more money elsewhere to go to FUS. But the greatest benefit that we have seen so far is that both our married children found their equally Catholic spouses at FUS. The Household system functioned as a very supportive, quasi- family while they were there and even after graduation. My oldest daughter and son-in-law participate in a weekly on-line Bible study with their former household brothers and sisters who are now scattered all over the country.

FUS was the only college we looked at over all these years that did not organize their dorms according to class year. (There are no co-ed dorms on campus either). All my kids, especially when they were juniors and senior in college, realized the benefit of having older students living across the hall from younger ones -- social, spiritual as well as academic benefits. Their study-abroad program was truly awesome too. My three older ones took advantage of it and my youngest son will be leaving for Austria this August. The professors in Austria are all FUS faculty, the students there are all from the Ohio campus of FUS.

I know I didn't answer all your questions, if you need more info you can PM me.

There is a yahoo group with lots of archives and posts on many Catholic colleges. You can join at

College4CathHS@yahoogroups.com

It is homeschooling moms and dads sharing what they know/learn about various colleges. I have found it useful at times. Also, homeschooling admissions counsellors post and respond to messages/questions.

_________________
Louise Deal

Thanks. I have joined that group. I was just looking for some additional feedback from Kolbe parents, since our curriculum is quite different than what most other homeschooled high schoolers are using.

Anne

I was planning to respond to all your questions but Mom5 did such a great job talking about Franciscan U of Steubenville that my response would be redundant. I have 2 children there now (senior Philosophy/History major and a sophmore majoring in Sacred Music) and a third one applying to start Sept. 2010. I cannot say enough positive things about the school. It is a campus like no other. Do not miss the opportunity to have your children at least visit and see for themselves how it compares to other colleges. I would be glad to give you (or any other parents) a phone call and talk to you in detail if you would like to PM your phone# to me.

Hello,
We are just beginning to research college--prices are amazingly high at most Catholic Colleges!!; any feedback on Aquinas College in Nashville, or Belmont Abbey or public universities--USM, Southeastern in Hammond, LA or Gwinnett/ GA colleges would be appreciated! FYI--My niece is just finishing a degree from Our Lady of Holy Cross College in the N.O., LA (very affordable) area and she really enjoyed it. thanks, Lisa

My daughter is a sophomore at The University of Dallas. She graduated from Kolbe with the Summa diploma. She is currently in Italy for the study abroad semester and is having an amazing (and exhausting!) time.

I can't answer all of your questions, and some of what you are looking for can be found on the college website or by calling Admissions and asking. I do have some notes which I kept after answering questions for another parent on a different board, so I will copy some of those below and add a bit more to answer some of your specific questions if possible.

UD is most definately a Catholic college with faithful and very caring Catholic faculty as far as we have seen. The chapel on campus is more modern in appearance but liturgies are reverent. I think there is a "Praise & Worship" service on Sunday nights. Students can also attend Mass at the Cistercian Abbey next door: http://cistercian.org/abbey/index.html Link to Campus Ministry with spiritual opportunities: http://www.udallas.edu/universitylife/campusministry

Most of the kids are practicing Catholics and many take full advantage of the spiritual opportunities, but there are some non-Catholics and even an aethist or two. Our dd says there are always lots of people at Mass and Adoration. She says the line for Reconciliation is ridiculously long. She's known kids to ask a priest if he would hear their confession right then and they've always said yes. There are sometimes spontaneous Rosary groups. There are lots of neat opportunities through Campus Ministry http://www.udallas.edu/universitylife/campusministry – retreats, Dinner & Discourse, Open Anselm and volunteer opportunities. However, this does not mean that all the students are saints. There are kids who drink & smoke despite being underage. According to my daughter, most of the parties seem to be at the apartments across from campus. So – as with any school – if the kids are determined to go looking for trouble, they will find each other and the opportunities. I get the impression most of the students take their studies seriously, but she's encountered a few students who are just there to have a good time. There is certainly a very large percentage of students who are interested in good, clean fun and they are very creative! Individuality seems to be highly valued and appreciated. There are athletes but no football team. A large portion of the student body seems to be musical in some way. There are dances and theater and musical productions. The dorms put on lots of social activities throughout the semester – most of which are free to the students. There are a surprising number of activities for such a small campus, and the students are able to participate in a wide variety that cross stereotypes. For example, my daughter is a serious Science major but she also sings in the Collegium Cantorum and was cast in a small principal part in an opera the Music Dept put on last semester. But she also plays with the Ultimate Frisbee team when she has time. The kids are very friendly. When we visited, my daughter was so impressed to be invited to lunch and dinner by various students who knew she was visiting. The cafeteria is a very social place!

Of course the academics are excellent. The class sizes really are small and the professors really do get to know the students and want them to succeed. For example, in my dd's first Literature class, the prof made all the students schedule an appointment with him to go over their first paper individually with him so that he could clarify his comments and give them tips for improvement. Another small example - before arriving on campus, my dd had a question about a specific textbook and emailed the department secretary. She received a personal response from the head of the department. Regarding the transistion from Kolbe to UD: Kolbe's curriculum is an excellent preparation. My daughter met a classmate who had also earned the Summa diploma and they both agreed that the effort was totally worth it and prepared them very well for UD. Some of the books she needed for classes at UD were the exact editions used in Kolbe, so not only did we save money on books, but the material was much easier to cover the 2nd time, and she was able to appreciate being able to go through it with an experienced professor and more in depth and with more discussion. She also had a conversation with a professor who, when he discovered she was a Kolbe graduate, admitted that he does his own informal study of students, and that graduates of Kolbe and MODG are among the most successful and best students at UD. Several of her professors have been greatly impressed with her writing ability and one also commented that Kolbe grads do come in with superior writing ability.

Another neat thing that UD does in regards to roommmates is that they have the kids take a personality test in addition to a personal habits quiz and use the results to match roommates. (The students do have the option of requesting a specific roommmate if they want.) My daughter did this and got the most amazing roommate. They have different majors and activities and don't really hang out together too much, but they live together very well and look out for each other. They have become like sisters. This is their 4th semester of living together and they plan to live together next year as well. Dorms - my daughter enjoyed living in Therese Hall freshman year. She was worried about the communal bathrooms at first but then came to enjoy it as girls met up frequently as they were coming and going. Apparently it was also conducive to spontaneous a cappella shower singing! Having access to the kitchen in the first year dorms was also very nice. However, the rooms in the New Hall are very nice and large and have private bathrooms. There are visiting hours in the dorms and they seem to be obeyed, though they can go rather late. I think the dorm residents have some kind of vote at the beginning of the semester about extending visiting hours.

Financial aid and scholarship information can be found on the UD website. Net Price Calculator: http://www.udallas.edu/futurestudents/admiss/scholarcalc and Scholarships & Awards: http://www.udallas.edu/futurestudents/admiss/scholarships UD will take the highest test scores even if they are submitted after application and/or acceptance and increase the merit aid if the scores improve enough. UD uses the FAFSA to compute “need”. I will say that our daughter is very frugal, and we found the variable expenses on the COA to be on the high side except for the Rome semester.

More links to investigate life at UD:

http://www.udallas.edu/universitylife/studentlife/activity

http://www.udallas.edu/universitylife/studentlife/residencelife

http://www.udallas.edu/universitylife/studentlife

http://udallasnews.com/

http://udunderground.com/udunderground/Welcome.html

Hope that helps. I'd be happy to try to answer any other questions on this board or privately via PM. Also, don't hesitate to call Admissions. They are very friendly and helpful!

Teresa